yanmar 230

[makaira1]

I have several hundred hours on my new boat since launching it in March. I have finally worked out the kinks. It is a 2002 24'6" cuddy with the Yanmar 230. I took out the backflow valves on top of the fuel tanks. There was a blockage problem on one tank. The one thing I have not been able to fix yet is the continual loosening of the fan belt. It stretches and creates lots of black dust in the engine compartment. HELP !!!

[micky692002]

Check the pulleys where the belt goes. If any of them have rust that's what's "eating" your belt. If they have rust take them out, sandblast them and chrome them. New pulleys are $1500 the 3 of them.

[Leprechaun]

Are all the pulleys in the EXACT same plane? Even factory engines sometimes come with pulleys that don't EXACTLY match up.

If you are getting excess dust in the engine compartment, its one of two things - out of plane pulleys or rust in the belt grooves.

Leprechaun

[Anonymous]

pulleys are 1500 bucks ? . I was thinking about a used 4lh dte , but if parts are that high, forget it.

[micky692002]

Its around that, one of them is about $672, the otherone (alternator) is $85 and the one from the water pump is about $200

[Leprechaun]

Yet another reason to join the "I hate Diesels in Small Boats" club.

I can't even begin to comprehend how they have the balls to charge that kind of money for something like pulleys. I though they were insane with the oil and fuel filters. Compared to the pulleys, the $50 filters are a steal! Not to mention the $1K starters that someone on this site wrote about.

What the hell good is the somewhat better diesel fuel economy if you give it back in spades every time something needs replacing?

Naaaa, forget it, its just a rhetorical question. I have no interest in this debate again.

Lep

[Eyekymo]

Lep,
I have four diesel trucks (company), a diesel suv, have owned diesel trucks since '84, and have seriously contemplated a diesel powered boat for several years. With todays fuel idiotic fuel pricing, the seven thousand dollar premium you pay for the diesel option on a truck, and the one hundred percent increase in maintenance costs, I'm beginning to think that, well, what in the x!?/! was I thinking? I like the "theory" of diesels being more reliable. I like the "theory" of diesels being more economical to operate. I like the "theory" of diesel fuel being cheaper to obtain than gasoline, as it is much easier and cheaper to produce. "Theoretically, diesels are the way to go! One more theory, and I am going to apply for employment with the FBI (Mulder would have been proud). Time to rethink, I guess. Mike

[Anonymous]

just wait til the 3.9 qsb is released , very quiet , cheap parts , ever hear an 03 up dodge , thats what it will sound like , people that badmouth diesels have never owned a cummins. http://www.cmdmarine.com/qsbrec.html

[easytimes455]

I think diesels are probably the best engines you can find on the highways and waterways. They log hours of runtime without a sneeze, in many cases.

I don't think there is any argument that in commercial use, a diesel is the engine of choice. I'm talking about a diesel engine designed for commercial use from its inception. Some of these conversion diesels and "recreational" diesels, I have no idea how they do in rough usage situations. The little history I know of that group is not encouraging.

Our local station, where I buy gas for my road vehicles and boat, has unleaded regular for $1.999, and diesel for $2.169. That's an 8.5% difference. When you add the added cost of joining the diesel club, plus the added cost of most of the parts consumed for not using the diesel as it was designed, it may not be as big a difference as it might appear.

Just for fun, take account of the number of hours you logged over the past five years on your boat. Divide it by five. Then take the cost of gas and the cost of diesel and calcualate what the difference would be, from your burn rate to that of a diesel engine per year with the higher diesel fuel rates. See how many years it would take to pay for the difference to buy a boat with a diesel engine in comparison to one with a gas engine. For some of us older fellas, it won't be enough difference, to make it worth while.

Better yet, check what it would cost to put a diesel in your present rig compared to a gas repower. Now see how many years of that fuel burn difference it would take to pay for the diesel repower. We haven't even mentioned any possible repairs to that diesel. I know everyone loves their diesels, who has one. But I think they may have loved them before ownership, or they use them in ways that make diesels a reasonable option in the cost category.

Put a diesel in your boat if that's what you want. It may work to save you a some money over a long enough period of time.

If you bought your boat to save money, I have some news you may not like hearing. When I came to this forum, I got a good splash of cold water about the cost to run an inboard boat and do proper maintenance on it. I was plainly invited to get out of boating, if I couldn't handle the cost or physical demands. I won't be so blunt about this subject as some were with me.

If you love diesels, and want one in your boat, you should have one, and I'll be one of the first to congratulate you. I'll even go out on it with you and enjoy your enhanced economy and power if invited. I won't criticize you for getting it, but it just doesn't work for me.

Before you make a jump... do the math, and don't fall in love... unless you just want to. Diesel love is as good a reason as economy, in my book. Some of us are just diesel admirers, but not enough to make that jump.
Charles

[Anonymous]

anybody that orders a new boat and gets a gas engine is crazy , a new 300 hp PCM is about 6500 , a new yanmar 4lh 190hp is about 13000 , 6500 difference , thats 10 percent of a 65000 dollar boat , when you sell it you get 20 percent more plus you used half the fuel , off road diesel is 1.40 a gallon . My buddy has the 22 shamrock with the 240 yanmar , bigblock performance at 5 gallons per hour.

[easytimes455]

I guess that's where I differ from some folks. I don't think anyone is crazy for buying what they want. If everything you say is universally known, there wouldn't be any gas engines in any boats, anywhere.

[Leprechaun]

Edit: Nevermind.

Lep

[Eyekymo]

Easytimes,
The thing that has always appealed most to me about a diesel in a boat is the range you can get. I don't think most non commercial fisherman/ pleasure boaters put the hours in to realize the savings over the initial and ongoing expenditure. I'm not certain that I do even in my work trucks. It's close.
John, Cummins (FORD OWNED) makes a good diesel, and has for years, but they are by NO means quiet. They are much louder than both Fords and GMs Isuzu motor. Mike

[Anonymous]

ford owns cummins and all cummins are loud , you seem to know alot about diesels. http://boatdiesel.com/index.cfm?RED=WWW

[easytimes455]

Easytimes,
The thing that has always appealed most to me about a diesel in a boat is the range you can get. I don't think most non commercial fisherman/ pleasure boaters put the hours in to realize the savings over the initial and ongoing expenditure. I'm not certain that I do even in my work trucks. It's close.


Right Mike,
You sound like you have the question figured. I don't have a problem with people loving diesels. It ain't my money. But some folks will assume an opinion and not actually look at the situation analytically. It's not a universal truth that diesels are the best for every boat, boater, and boating function. But some would portray it in that light.

Like I say... if you love 'em, for whatever reason, ya oughta get one.

There was a little Pettibone portable 70' boom crane on the base, where I worked. I never found out what engine it had, but that thing had the best sound when it drove by going through the gears. Never heard a diesel sound any better, before or since. If I had the money, I'd love to have a boat sound like that. It was scootin' along, when that sound was happenin' too.

I believe people should do their own investigating, and not take one opinion as the only way things should be done. When they jump off into an investment as big as these boats can be, it's a good idea to not have any huge surprises, after it's too late.
Charles

[Eyekymo]

Charles,
I have owned two Pettibone all terrain forklifts, the second being a three cylinder two stroke diesel manufactured by Allison ( G.M., I believe). It's a 35000 lb. machine, and slow as a snail, but it gets the job done. I think the machine must have a billion hours on it by now. I had never heard of a two stroke diesel before owning this machine, and two mechanics I talked to verified that it was, in fact, a two stroke, but couldn't explain satisfactorily the way it worked. This one sounded pretty good, too. Mike

[Eyekymo]

John,
Are you referring to the 5.9 liter motor? If so, that particular motor has been around for 20+ years, long before Ford bought out Cummins. Ford used them in their medium duty trucks as far back as the earlier "80s ( F700, F800, ect.). Strong, heavy motor. Up until recently, quite loud, too. I think I saw a boat for sale about a year ago with twin 5.9s, although I don't think they were Mercruisers. I always wondered why they never marinized Ford's 7.3. It's lighter, more powerful, and has a great track record. Just a thought. Mike

[Eyekymo]

just wait til the 3.9 qsb is released , very quiet , cheap parts , ever hear an 03 up dodge , thats what it will sound like , people that badmouth diesels have never owned a cummins. http://www.cmdmarine.com/qsbrec.html

John,
Are you referring to the 5.9 liter motor? If so, that particular motor has been around for 20+ years, long before Ford bought out Cummins. Ford used them in their medium duty trucks as far back as the earlier "80s ( F700, F800, ect.). Strong, heavy motor. Up until recently, quite loud, too. I think I saw a boat for sale about a year ago with twin 5.9s, although I don't think they were Mercruisers. I always wondered why they never marinized Ford's 7.3. It's lighter, more powerful, and has a great track record. Just a thought. Mike

[Anonymous]

you meant to say ford wishes it owned cummins

[L.A. z GATOR]

I thought Cummins was related to Dodge, not Ford? :?:

[Eyekymo]

L.A. z GATOR,
Dodge uses Cummins, and has for many years ( 5.9 Liter only, as far as I know). Ford has also used Cummins motors for many years, in there medium duty (F700, F800) trucks. Cummins was a separate entity, until maybe two years ago. Ford bought them out. They still operate as Cummins,

[Anonymous]

if ford owned cummins why don't they put it in the f250 , 350 , why let dodge sell all those trucks

[Eyekymo]

John, Why would they? They have a fine motor already. The 7.3 is a great motor. The 6.0 is supposed to be good, as well, but I can not attest to that, as I never owned one. Next year, I believe, they are going to introduce a new model, the 6.4 liter, which will be compliant with the new regulations that are forthcoming. The rep I talked to said the 6.4 is supposed to be one heck of a motor. The cummins, while it is a good motor, is quite heavy, maybe to heavy for todays pickups. I've heard that Dodge has had frame issues because of this. Mike

[easytimes455]

This is what I was talking about in my previous post on this thread. Taking a singular idea and making it a universal truth, because it WAS true, may not serve everyone forever. What was true fifty years ago may not be true today, we still need to check all the details before laying out these big expenditures.

Of course, if you're a fan of a particular brand or type of engine, boat, or car that's fine, too. Just be ready to, one day, not have the best on the road or in the water, if you JUST cling to the past. Take a fresh look every time it's your turn to pay and you won't miss the best boat leaving the dock, or at least you'll know what happened.
Charles

[Anonymous]

check out the problems per 100 diesel trucks sold , ford has real winner with the sick.o , I mean 6.0 , ford dosen't even own 1 share of cummins. http://www.jdpa.com/businessservices/automotive/publications/powerreport/200407/0704_Diesel.htm

[fisherofmen]

The only justification for a diesel is "I can afford it and I want it". You can't justify a diesel in a small boat unless you are using it 3-400 hours a year and unless you have a low RPM diesel like a cummins. The new yanmars which I love are about double in fuel economy but expensive to maintain and expensive to purchase. Would I do it again? In a minute.

Rick

[easytimes455]

The only justification for a diesel is "I can afford it and I want it".

BINGO, Rick... my sentiments exactly!!!
I have no problems with people buying diesels... or gas engines, or inboards, or outboards. I don't even mind them advocating their choices. I think if ya got the moola... spend it the way you wish.

My only reason for engaging this thread was because less knowlegable people could be influenced into believing something is absolutely the best, when it may not be true for their situation. There's a lot more to consider than if something is the most abundant commercial power plant on the water or highway.

The real question most people ask, in most cases, is not normally what's the best, although that's the words they say. What people usually mean is what should I like? The question comes from wanting someone else to take responsibility for them being satisfied with their purchase. That usually ain't happenin'. That's why I advocate doin' yer own homework.

I try to always state my reasons for my purchases and leave others to decide if they like my reasons enough to use them to make their choice, or not. Except for this boat, I buy most things based on reliability. If I can't put a top score in the reliability column, I don't usually consider it further. But that's just me.
Charles

[Mistress]

Diesel is a MUCH safer fuel onboard. My filters cost no more than a gasoline equivalent. Add in significantly increased range per tank, no pesky spark plugs, wires, risers/manifolds every few years, better resale value, etc. and the choice becomes obvious.

Most rec boats will never wear out a gas motor sure....but then most boats don't last as long as Shammy's ;-)

A 210 Cummins can be had for the $10k range..not bad if ya ask me. Now Yanmar parts I hear are exhorbitant.

Oh..BTW...Ford DOES NOT own Cummins. At one point they owned 5% (BFD), but not anymore.

[easytimes455]

no pesky spark plugs, wires, risers/manifolds every few years, better resale value, etc. and the choice becomes obvious.


Can you explain how this one works? I don't mind saying I am not a diesel know-it-all, but I do listen and am willing to learn. What system is used that keeps the exhaust system from rusting? Tony's comments lead me in another direction on that issue, or is it just one model that doesn't need exhaust system parts replacements?

Let me say one more thing to make my position clear... if I were looking for a boat, and found one with diesel power, I wouldn't be as quick to run away, now, like I was before. Thanks to you folks talking about them, I am much more open to the idea of a diesel powered boat. I don't believe I would change mine over, but if I bought another... who knows?

Of course, it would have to be one that doesn't add to motion sickness with exhaust odors. I have just learned how to cope with that problem since owning this Shamrock, and I don't know if adding diesel odors would hurt that process or not. I'm thinking it wouldn't be helpful.
Charles

[Anonymous]

There's no raw water until the heat exchanger and dumped at the outlet after the turbo. FW is running through the exhaust manifold.

Most if not all freshwater cooled marine diesels function this way as they are built to be marine motors (after the shortblock) from their inception rather than a "marinized" automotive engine. The marine head, exhaust etc. are marine specific. This is why they can be drystacked in many applications too.

As for the mention of 2 stroke diesels above...all the old Detroit diesels were 2 stroke Superchargers, turbochargers owe their development to these motors (where do you think "671", "871" blowers that form the basis for all hotrod dragsters came from?). Lots of power out of small mills, but oily bastards that can't meet current emissions requirements. Not too good in tight engine rooms (oily bilges), like most sportboats have either.

[Mistress]

BTW...I'm "guest". I didn't get logged in for a couple posts.

And if you've ever pulled 20K pounds up an 8% grade in a 325 rwhp Cummins pick-up you'd know the sweetness. :D

Fumes...I don't have a problem with more or less open or openback boats. Did get sick on an old partyboat with drystack in the cabin area years ago though. No way to totally seal that sheet out. IMHO, no exhaust should be vented through the cabin. Everyone has their own tolerance I suppose though.

[AJ]

Ditto what Mistress said.

I bought my 246 with a diesel because I wanted as safe, simple, and reliable an engine as possible in my boat. With kids on board, safety is a priority. Can anyone really argue against the fact that diesel is safer than gas? With a diesel powered boat, you won't see me ending up in the Loma Linda burn center.
And, since I fish offshore a lot, the extended range of a diesel fits my
boating lifestyle better.

Exhaust fumes? Are you serious, Charles? Diesel odor has never been an issue on my 246 - I'm more offended by the stench of fish guts, beer breath, and other unmentionable odors emanating from my fishing buddies at the end of the day. A little potpourri holder might be nice next to the fish box. :lol:

BTW, tell Gavin he can remove the "Dudettes" reference from the title of this forum. Diesel Dudes sounds ok, but Diesel Dudettes just doesn't sound real good. Bleh. :? I'm no feminazi, so just go ahead and refer to this forum as Diesel Dudes. :D

Ok, that's my $.02 for tonight. I look forward to some more lively discussion about diesel engines.
BTW - what's the difference in performance between the Cummins 210 and the Yanmar 240? Anyone know?

[Mistress]

About 30 hp AJ...LOL

Of course that's at like 3800 rpm eh?

Is your av painted on your boat? Do you have a digital copy I can have? I luv it and have been toying with something similar for my new-to-me boat.

[AJ]

Oh, you sooo funny Mistress!

Yes, my avatar is a copy of the artwork I have on the side cabin on my 246 - it's also on my bait tank. I might let you have a digital copy if you tell my why you chose a Cummins over a Yanmar for your Mac. :lol:

I'd pick Yanmar over Volvo anyday, but I'm not familiar with the smaller Cummins engines. I'm just curious how they compare to the Yanmar.
Pros & cons, etc.

[easytimes455]

Exhaust fumes? Are you serious, Charles? Diesel odor has never been an issue on my 246

I have only been on commercial fishing boats with larger diesels. Believe me... I've been gagged by diesel fumes, and I know that some engines claim to have been "defumed", but few people have been as cursed with a keen olfactory bulb as I have. It's from my mother, and it curses me every day. I do things like notice if my neighbor has a gas leak inside their house from my back door. It's a real curse.

They claimed to have removed the odor from mineral spirits... when I'm around... ya wanna bet? I know the instant the can is opened.


I'm more offended by the stench of fish guts, beer breath, and other unmentionable odors emanating from my fishing buddies at the end of the day. A little potpourri holder might be nice next to the fish box.

Okay, that's the three in a row I don't tolerate well. I keep a running clean boat... most of the time, anyway. But I gotta say... sun baked fish guts lose their stench, pretty quick. It's the ones that are left in that stupid box under the helm that stink the place up. But I don't have one, anymore... the fishbox, that is.

Beer breath is no issue on my boat. No drinking... sorry, but that's how I do it. I don't drink, and I don't want to hit the MOB button for somebody who might stagger overboard for that reason. If you can't have fun without alcohol, it won't make any fun for me when others have it. I dance, and that's enough exposure to drunks.

Potpourri is the main reason I don't go in those foo-foo shops anymore. I have had terrible problems with allergies over an 8 year period, and that was one thing that would bring on asthma like symptoms... and since I eliminated the allergies, I still don't tolerate potpourri very well. It's a personal choice, but it keeps me out of those craft and candle shops.

To be honest, I don't like the fumes from my present engine, and I know they aren't as bad as most. When I'm on my boat, I can tell you what kind of engine is passing anywhere up-wind of me to about 500 yards. That is, if the wind is blowing... which it usually is, around here.
Charles

[Mistress]

AJ. Cummins was the standard issue diesel for 260's in '92, so it really wasn't an "option". I have faith in them as I do the one in my truck. They are cheaper to tend to and replace. Relatively easy to work on. Good resources of parts and information available most anywhere you go.

This 210 is an 1100# straight six..so hardly "smaller". Cummins specs this block to well over 300 hp (over 400 hp in 24 valve configuration). Where applicable, people seem to be raving about the new little 1.7L 120 hp Cummins/Mercs though.

[palmer1]

http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?siteId=1&langId=1033&menuId=6&overviewId=29&anchorId=44&menuIndex=4&index=3

I don't know if I did this link right but it is from the Cummins website FAQ Does Ford Own Cummins? No In the 1990's ford bought 1.7 million shares of Cummins stock and owned a large share of the company. In 1997 Cummins bought back the stock. The VP of Ford was also on the Board of Cummins until 1997 as well. Like all rumors there was some truth to it, but never did ford Wholly own Cummins.

[Hav'nfun]

I've zipped up my flame proof suit so ready to make this post. AJ asked the difference between Yanmar and Cummins diesel engines. Diesels come in three rating, light, medium, and heavy duty. Each of these ratings are divided into three additional ratings of light, medium and heavy duty; so an engine could be a light/light suitable for small compressors, pumps, and generators, to heavy/heavy suitable for earthmover or coastal steamer.

Light duty engines have smaller bearing surfaces, lighter components and usually run at high rpms, have low mass, and are designed for intermitment use. A heavy duty engine will be physically massive, have huge bearings, bullet proof components, run continously, and produce max hp and torque at low rpms. Usually a heavy/heavy will have max rpms of 1600 to 1800. Light duty engines make max rpms of 3800 to 4000.

Diesels earned their reliability reputation in the days of low engine speeds. When I lived on an island off the coast of Washington, our power was generated by a single cylinder diesel that ran at 30 rpm. It had run continously at 30 rpm for over 70 years. The only time is was shut down was to change the oil. It held five gallons of oil and used about 5 gallons of fuel per day.

Yanmars are light duty engines usually rated either light/medium or light/heavy,designed to run at high rpms to produce useable power. In fact, most Yanmars must run at higher rpms than similar gas engines to produce the same power. Just as an aside, both Ford's 6.0 and 7.3 engines and GM's DuraMax are rated as light/heavy engines. Both Ford and GM state a useful life of their pickup engines as 150,000-200,000 miles.

Cummins are rated as medium/heavy engines. In a Dodge, the average useful life of the BT5.9 is 500,000-600,000 miles. Want to do an easy comparison between a 240hp Yanmar and a 210hp Cummins, ask a parts dealer for the net weight of a set of main bearings for each. Yanmar, 2.3 lbs, Cummins, 5.4lbs. Check the weight of a replacement crank. Yanmar, 41 lbs, Cummins, 63lbs.

The Yanmar max rpm is 3800, the QSB 210 is 2600. Now call a couple of dealers and ask for the cost of replacement fuel filters. Yanmar is about $60. I can purchase a half-dozen Fleetguard filters from my local Cummins dealer for that price.

The reason boat manufacturers install Yanmar is one, they are less expensive than the Cummins; two, they weigh less by about 150 pounds than a Cummins. Since most pleasurecraft manufacturers aren't building to workboat standards, the Yanmar gets the nod. After all, in two or three years the warranty is expired and you're ready to trade you boat in for an newer, shinier boat. So what if the diesel is ready for costly repairs. Neither the owner or Yanmar is concerned. In fact, many boat dealers hype the Yanmar line as superior without adequate knowledge or track record to back up their claims.

I personally am unaware of any workboat using Yanmar power. Since Shamrock owners tend to own their boats longer than other brands, I would like to see Cummins offered as the primary diesel powerplant with Yanmar as an option.

I'm waiting to see what the new 26' looks like. If attractive with great seakeeping ability I'll buy one with a Cummins. If not, then I'll repower my 220 with a Cummins. Either way, it should be the last boat I ever own.

[mymojo]

I can't get in to the Yanmar vs. Cummins debate as I know nothing about Cummins products. I can say I like my Yanmar 6 lpdte so far with its mix of good power and light weight. I will say that the things that I have had to replace so far were NOT exorbinantly priced. RW impeller - $25 (1/2the price of my Mercruiser impeller) primary Racor filters $9/30 micron filter, secondary Yanmar branded fuel filter $27, Yanmar oil $11/gallon. Yanmar certified tech 80-90/hour locally. Thankfully I have not yet had to replace/repair any major items and am now in my second season with the Yanmar.
The normal wera and tear stuff noted above is in line with or cheaper than the same items on my previous mercruiser so to some degree I think the overprice Yanmar mantra is not on target. My .02 cents any ways.
Greg J

[Anonymous]

Just a point of information about the 230/240 HP Yanmar.

I fish on an annual basis on a Charter boat out of Venice named Osprey. Capt. James Peters has a set of Yanmars in his G & S 30 that have over 6000 hours. In talking to him about the engines, they have been problem free.


He is religous about keeping the turns under 2900.

[Cosmic Thing]

That was me above.

[skipm]

Well said Havenfun.

[Anonymous]

I'm a little late getting in on this subject, but I'd like to throw in my 2c.
In July of 04 I had a gas tank leak.I'm at a dry storage marina. When the guys where putting my boat in water gas leaked out. They isolated my boat in the yard. When I arrived , I got the bad news.
I had the yard install two new tanks. No chances on just changing one.
Everything checked out ok. When fishing as usual. However , everytime I reached for the ignition key I had this feeling that I'm going high in the sky and I'll be on 6 pm news for my 15 seconds of fame.

In Nov 04 the boat shows started. Looked at new Shams. Best price resulted in a new boat. Wanted to go up to a 24 or 26 but I'm partial to the full keel. Fishing in skinny water in Fl I like the full keel.

New boat is 22 wa w/240 Yanmar diesel.

Took the new boat in Feb 05. Today I filled for the third time. Diesel was 2.56 at the dock. Gas was 2.96

The piece of mind of diesel vs gas is hard to verbalize.

I don't care about the cost of filters, etc.

I don't care about the maintanence cost.

I like the safety. I'll live with the stink!!

My gas v8 gave me 20 mph at 3000 rpms. Att 3000 rpms on the 4 cyl Yan I go 25 mph.

Thanks for reading .

Len aka ifish

[Leprechaun]

. . ."Can anyone really argue against the fact that diesel is safer than gas?"

Yes AJ, I can. The truth is that far more fires are started on diesel boats than on gas boats. This is generally due to the unbelieveable temp that diesel's generate in the exhaust system.

Additionally, if you factor in the huge difference in the number of gas boats vrs diesels, the diesels STILL come in first in fire-related incidents.

I know this is tough to accept - what with the way diesels have been packaged and mass marketed to the public as the "Safe" alternative to gas engines, but its a USCG-documented fact.

This comes right from a Lt. Commander in the USCG that happens to be a business/personal friend of mine. I suppose I could dig up that statistic myself, if I had the time, but I really don't.

Leprechaun

[fisherofmen]

Unfortunately Lep is correct with his information on this!

Rick

But.....If you are cooking on the boat which I always do I'll take diesel any day. The EGT on a diesel is up over 1000 degrees if memory serves correctly.

[Anonymous]

Lep, I liked the info on the fire stats diesel vs gas. However, I'd rather have diesel in my bilge than gas. I remember my Power Squad course instuctor driving home the point re the volitilty of the fumes from one cup of gas.

Pls steer me to the info on fire from exhaust temps. I'd like to read.

Let me just repeat, I'm scared of gas , more at ease with diesel. Give me that!!

Len

[anchorinn]

I would like to chime in on this. Lep is correct there are more fires with diesel equipped boats. The primary cause is lack of maintenance. As for the severity of the fire in diesel boats, most are contained to the vessel and personnel have time to evacuate. Gas fires are different, they are caused by expanding vapors (that would be the BOOM effect) In my 46 years of experience at boating I have only witness one mishap with a gas vessel at the dock. The owner landed in the water fifteen feet from point of ignition and survived. Eight people were injured all on other vessels or standing on the dock. One was me who was 20 feet away. I was ten at the time. We all have seen or heard stories of boating fires, all could have been prevented. But as humans we take risks, some risk is do to ignorance. So the best way to avoid the BOOM effect is get familiar with the warnings, caution labels and documentation that comes with your vessel. Safety is every ones business and just because you have covered all your bases your boating neighbor may not, so be friendly and ask questions helping people do the right thing may save a life. That life could be yours.

ege :) :shock: :)

[skipm]

After using mine for the ist full year , won't have it any other way.What eayy said.

[Anonymous]

Lep,

We all know what "caveat emptar" is and have been stung by it all our days as consumers, BUT

I'm tired of yr comments about diesels. Yuo are a moderater not an editorial manager.
I'll read the NY times for editorials.

If you don't like diesels JUST SHUT UP!!

Len aka i fish

[Kurt]

Jeez Len, easy... :shock:

Lep's last comment (that I could find) in this thread was in Aug, 2005. It was inactive from Aug until yesterday with Skip's post.

[mymojo]

shoulda passed on that last cup of coffee..... :lol:

[easytimes455]

Well, Lep doesn't need me to stick up for him. On top of that, it usually does threaten people to hear statistics backing up opinions they don't share.

I don't share opinions with everyone, and I'm darn happy that everyone doesn't share opinions with me. I hate being in the middle group... otherwise known as moderate in other circles, if anyone hasn't figured that out about me. I do, however, want to hear any kind of statistical compilation, even if it doesn't bolster my opinion. Truth is truth, after all.

I do respect everyone's opinion, and if I don't like what they're saying or it's not useful to me, I just stop reading, and move on to another post. That's something a few people have trouble doing, from my observations. Posts that are detrimental to this forum are my only exception.

The invitation to shut up won't be heeded, I'm sure, so no detriment to the forum. No harm, no foul... from my perspective. I'd just be a little careful about spontaneous reactions going forward.

Maybe more coffee would help.
Charles

[Leprechaun]

Len - what the H-E-Double-L is up with you? This board as all others on this site is open to free discussion. Period. If you do not like what I contribute - then by all means do not read my posts. I'm not gonna miss you're reading them, believe me.

If I have something to say that gores some ox that you feel you have, that's too bad. And if you consider it "Editorializing," congradulations - you have correctly divined my intent.

Just so you know, it was MY idea to even have a "Diesel" board in the first place. So before you throw stones, it might serve you in good stead to reflect on how this board . . . and this site as a whole got to where it is now.

And who among us was instrumental in getting it there. From the very beginning, plenty of thinking, endless hours of typing and editing and helping others make their boats more useful, more economical and much safer to own and operate. If you had a tenth of the time out of your life invested here that I do, I believe you too would feel somewhat entitled to give an opinion when warranted.

Don't even bother to respond, this is not a debate, just a flat statement of intent on my part. I will not "Editorialize" on this thread again.


Lep

[Leprechaun]

Len - another board member pointed out the linkage between your post above and the stand-alone apology you posted elsewhere on the site.

Accepted and behind us. Let's go fishin'!!!

Lep

[matnelph]

This is a pretty interesting topic. The only reason I once considerd a diesel conversion on my 86' 260 Hardtop was that I had the original sales brochure that showed the range and fuel consumption difference between the PCM 351 and the Cummins B210, a stock option. The shaft and prop (diameter, not pitch) are the same for both power option. The Diesel was direct drive (not 1.5:1 reduction). I believe the Cummins option was intended for the commercial use buyer.

I looked for and found a (vintage) 1987 Cummins B210 that came out of commercial fishing boat locally - for $3,000. It had 17,000 hours on a re-build, with a life expectancy of 35K with proper maintenance. I was tempted. I had the oil (black as tar, almost as thick) analysed for engine wear for $12.00. It came back "normal".

It is as easytimes455 says, if you must have a diesel then get one and be happy with your choice, whatever your reason. They will run on a mixture of diesel and biodiesel and smell like lunch at the exhuast if you prefer.

In the end I stuck with my PCM engine because I LIKE to maintain and tinker with gas engines. It is almost as much of a hobby for me to work on it as it is to run it and enjoy the water.

I converted my cooling system from raw to fresh with parts I found on this site. I have been able to get absolutely every gas part I need for my Shamrock through this site, new and used, for far less than Sierra or other distribution channels, with excellent technical support to boot.

Matt
86' 260C Hardtop
PCM 351 FWC