What kind of fuel filter?

[skipm]

I have a Dahl, but today on way out to the 30 line my engine shut down . So I look at the filter & one of the water warning blotheads rusted off & fell out . Luckily I had something to make an on the spot repair bleed the system & fished the rest of the day.I like the Dahl see thru resivour but now I don't know. I see Racor makes a seethru with a ss shield. What do you think Diesel Dudes Dahl or Racor?

[Anonymous]

Racor turbo series.

[Pedlyr]

Racor used to make a bowl with a petcock drain. This worked well especially since you could drain off any water without removing the lid or shutting off the engine.

I think they might still offer this as an option. If not, it is a fairly easy modification. One problem with the plastic bowl here on both units is stripping the threads or cracking the bowl if you overtighten the bottom plug.

Dahl may still use a banjo style clamp to secure the lid. I always prefered the Racor "T" style bolt myself. Especially in a tight space.

Racor elements are sold pretty much everywhere.

[Brian]

Here is part of an email from Boat Diesel on the Subject. Tony is the moderator for Cummins.
We have been selling a Heavy Duty Multi-stage fuel filter system for about 15 years now.....As filter technology has changed, we have changed with it and have adapted our systems for cover most any need to over 700HP in the most modern "common rail" diesel engines.. We only use the most modern filters w/ advanced filter media designed for the most stringent diesel fuel filtration requirements, usually made by Fleetguard......


For your engine, all you need is our standard Heavy Duty Multi-Stage system which is described below.........This system, once installed, will allow you to go much longer between any filter changes as by the time the fuel gets to the engine, it is all ready been "polished"-- the more you use your vessel, the cleaner your entire fuel system and tank will get.........................My spiel and marine "politics" are below............



Fuel Filter Recommendations---- Clogging Fuel Filters ----- Multi-Stage Fuel/ Water Separators







Save your money on fuel polishing systems and throw away the Racor (actually just give to a friend in need) if have already bought one......................See the attached pics, spend $200 and your fuel filtration issues/ clogging problems will be history...Of course you may still plug a filter if your tanks are full of mud/algae, ??? ( that's the idea, plug the filter, NOT the engine) , but you'll still get 10 times + between change outs..............



The attached photos is what we supply for both commercial and recreational

use... These units filter in multiple stages and will out perform a Racor

1000 in all applications. They are available with or without vacuum gages

and also come with different filters (all spin-on).. For the commercial guys

with older funky tanks that upgrade to modern engines, I use a FF 5013 "bulk

separator" filter for the primary and a FS 1000 for the final

separator/polisher.. This system will protect a QSM-11 @ 660 HP and is only

$200 including UPS to your door including a spare "primary" bulk separator..... Add $50

for a vacuum gage kit..If you prefer a "clear bowl", we use the FS 1015

("Stratapore" upgrade) for the secondary separator/polisher (same price)..



For a lastest "Common Rail Systems", we upgrade to the super premium filter from Fleetguard, the FS19595, with a built-in WIF (water in fuel) sensor that is easy to hook into your electronic water sensing circuitry.



If you have a newer Racor system and want to keep it, a Primary Bulk separator kit for use in front of your existing Racor which will add an additional layer of protection are $110 each including a spare FF5013, and shipping 48/states.



Typical customers of these filters use 10,000 to 15000+ gallons of fuel a year per engine and still get thru the season with one filter change.. Of course, as the picture shows,

there are guys who have lots of crap in their tanks, but that why we use this

type of filtration..The first filter will STOP 99% of any type of algae...

The "polisher" will do the rest leaving the "on-engine" 100% filter clean for 1000's of hours..



I also have available a primary spin-on for this unit ( actually made by "Racor" or "Cim-Tek")

that has a special element that absorbs water until it becomes fully saturated and

then slows down the flow letting the operator know he needs to change the element.. In some cases where water entry into a fuel system is unavoidable and a continuing problem, we'll use this filter as it will slow the engine down before any water flows to the secondary filter...These elements are applicable to "problem" systems, or to an operator who just wants even more protection..



I'd like you to read (if you haven't all ready) some of the material on my site

about fuel filtration. http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Fuel_and_Horsepower "Fuel and Horsepower



This will give you a better idea of how filtration really works.. I really think you should leave out the "snake oil" stuff (Algae X and the like) and spend your money elsewhere.. High quality mechanical filtration is the only proven method that is used by all of the engine manufactures to protect their engines, whether they cost $10,000 or $100,000+++ ea........



As far as replacements, Fleetguard is owned by Cummins and these "spin-ons" are available any place they sell Cummins parts...........Also, if you prefer using other makes of filters because you are out in the boonies, I'll supply you w/ some cross reference #'s that will get you by in a pinch.......



Thanks, Tony

Seaboard Marine / Tony Athens
Tony@SBMar.com
2947 W. 5th St.
Oxnard, Ca. 93030

(805) 38-BOATS (26287)
(805) 984-FISH (3474) FAX
800 200-BOAT (2628) "My Dime"

http://www.SBMar.com "drop in for a visit"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

Tony's Politics"--- Links to articles and repowers



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles "Big Nut vs Little Nut"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Boost_and_EGT "Boost and EGT"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Choosing_the_right_diesel "Choosing the Right Diesel"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Crankcase_Ventilation "CCV's"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Engine_Life "Engine Life"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Engine_Life_vs_Engine_Loading "Engine Life vs Engine Loading"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Exhaust_Size "Exhaust Size"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Fuel_Filters "Fuel Filters"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Fuel_and_Horsepower "Fuel and Horsepower"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Installing_Shafts "Shaft and Strut Installation"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Low_Speed_Running "low Speed Running"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Shafting "Propeller Shafting"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=Sleeves "Sleeves"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Articles&PG=White_Smoke "White Smoke"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers "25 ft Farallon"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=28_FT_Bertram "28 ft Bertram"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=32_FT_Hatteras "36 ft Hatteras"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=32_FT_Radon "32ft Radon"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=36_FT_Hatteras "36 ft Hatteras"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=Bossea "10 meter Trojan"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=Couple_of_Farallons "25 and 27 ft Farallons"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=Miss_Rebecca "26ft Jack Tar"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=Nido_Del_Mar "48 ft Offshore"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=Raptor "35 ft New Wave"



http://sbmar.com/index.cfm?SD=Repowers&PG=Tunanator " 60 ft Elliott"

[Scratcher]

Tony knows his stuff; his recommendations are what I used for my system. I kept my racor 500 as my secondary at 10 microns, and added a Cummins 5013 bulk separator with the water absorbing media and a 30 micron filter as the primary. I added a vacuum gauge so I can monitor the system. This leaves the on-engine filter as the final step.

[Brian]

I went with his two step filters and the final on engine filter and elimated the racors - couldn't be happier. So much easier than dealing with the Racors.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Brian, very sage advice from Tony the diesel guru. The only part of his recomendations that I found fualt in was to give your racors to a friend. I'm going to upgrade my filters and give the racors to someone that I dont like much! Clean diesel is only half the equation, dont neglect the air side. Tony offers some really trick air filters at rock bottom prices as well as tips on keeping the air side of the motor clean and cool.

[skipm]

If you think Racors are bad you should see this Dahl , you have to bleed the motor every time you drain the bowl areal PIA. It does a good job on the seperatioin & the ugly stuff tho.

[scoffshore]

I have always liked and relied on Racor, both for my gas and diesel engines. Remember that "Metal bowls are recommended for use in areas of high heat and are required by the US Coast Guard on inboards and commercial vessels " I personally wouldn't use anything else. Even on Big megayachts I used to work on, we used racor maily for filter availabilty, and when we went somewhere with questionable fuel (like Mexico and the Carribean) we would use a Bramha filter when fillign up. How bad is your fuel supply? How bad are the conditions of the fuel in your tank. If used often and treated with a biocide, you should never have a proplem....

[micky692002]

Scoffshore, what's a Bramha filter ?? Here in Pueto Rico the diesel always has water and sludge.

[scoffshore]

Actually it's a Baja Filter, thats what I get for typing, eating, and talking to the wife at the same time. It is a fairly large aluminum based filter, but works great, but is expensive. While looking for a picture (below), I came across a great article by Practical Sailor that actually rated a new filter from West Marine as good or better. Well worth checking out the article.

[micky692002]

Here's the article: http://www.practical-sailor.com/sample/Fuelfilter.html

[saltwaters]

I have been using Tony Athens' system for about 5 years now. It works real good. I installed them on my Topaz about six months ago.

Here are some photos.

Bill

[Anonymous]

Scoff...I believe the metal bowl is only required on enclosed systems with GAS motors.

[Pedlyr]

I still stand by the Racors.

Tony's system does have petcocks on the filters. This way you can drain off water, if you know it is in there. With a Racor you can SEE what is in there.

With a vacum gauge, dirt causes restrictions that can be measured. Water doesn't.

I always drain the racor when changing filters. Messy? You betcha. However, what is in the bottom of the bowl is a sample of the crap that is trapped.

BTW- Metal bowls are for gas. Plastic is OK for diesels.

[Brian]

Here is another attachement that Tony had on the email that I posted earlier that might be of some interest.

Fuel Filtration Politics--An Answer to a simple question on "Boatdiesel" Sept 04

To All,

Who am I to argue another authors ideas on fuel filtration when I think you (he) are (is) suggesting (in so many words) that fuel that is cleaner, is better.. But, I will suggest that maybe something along the lines of practicality might be missing in your post or his article.......Since I haven’t read it, I can only surmise at this point as to what he should have conveyed................

Actually, filtering down to a nominal 2 mic level probably could have some quantifiable benefits even for an engine that does not require that level of filtration.. But, this is not the reason that I sell replacement injection pumps a couple of times a year.. It’s because of water contamination, and the fact that the operator only relied on his 1st line of defense (typically a “RACOR”) and the marketing hype around it that led to complacency regarding fuel quality...............So, I’m not going to argue about whether filtering below manufactures spec has a benefit, what I’ll argue is the way most people filter fuel..

My thoughts and reasoning will never change about multi-stage “primary” filtration and making sure you have the filtering capacity to get you through a lousy tank of fuel, or maybe 2...With the advent of “common rail” fuel injection, just the slightest amount of water that makes it to the pump and/or injector will now have catastrophic consequences for not only your fuel system components, but could also take-out the engine.. I’ll touch on that later........................

To me, proper fuel filtration on the type of vessels generally discussed in these forums w/ modern diesel engines, all comes down to using a simple multi-stage filtration set-up (a minimum of 3 distinct stages/components) starting with largest practical and effective mechanical spin-on filter with around a 20-30 micron rating. We call them bulk separators or “mud filters”, but in actuality, the first part of this primary line of defense can not only remove most of the mud and crud, algae and diesel fines, and extend filter maintenance many times, it can also remove copious amounts of water, but this will depend upon the type of primary filter you use.. And BTW, a Racor 900 or 1000 w/ a 30 mic element also qualifies as a “bulk separator” in my book, although I consider its proper long term maintenance is rather messy and time consuming........After this primary line of defense comes your main fuel water separator, your Racor 900 or 1000, or other type of quality fuel water separator (we prefer a Fleetguard FS19596, FS 1000, or FS1015-- listed in order of overall capacity and filtering quality), that has the largest capacity practical using the most modern 7-10 mic media specifically developed for water separation. Notice I didn’t mention the FG 500 as I consider it too small (capacity wise) for anything over about 75 HP hp. What you choose here is usually governed by what the builder or past owner installed.. And CAPACITY again is the main key, as all of the issues that I have seen over years with problems in the fuel system and/or failed fuel components, is more or less related to the capacity, along w/ system component design and/or maintenance of this filter , and not the chosen micron size of the element, be it 2, 10, or 30 micron ..

A Racor 1000 can have very acceptable capacity when used w/ a 300-600 HP engine in typical recreational service. Use that same filter on a 200-400 HP diesel in an application that runs 2000-5000 hours per year, and in many/most cases, this unit used as the only filter before the engine, has un-acceptable life between maintenance intervals. My point here is that designed flow rate of a filter, should not be the only reason for selecting filter size, but rather needs to be chosen based upon the application and vessel current use and past fuel problem history (if any) of the vessel.

As many operators will confirm from personal experience, servicing a “Racor” can be a challenge if you want to try and keep the bowl clear and clean. Lots of parts, seals and just a plain hassle to deal with.. But, get it clean once, install a bulk separator in front of it, and you’ll see a noticeable change in the maintenance of the Racor over the next few years, along w/ giving you that added layer of protection. Also, more times than not, , I have seen the bowl on a Racor so dirty that its effective use as a “visual” has become totally worthless. My preference and experience is not to rely on a “visual” at all, but to drain a sample of fuel before you use your vessel. Maybe that reasoning comes from my training as a military pilot way back when, but for sure it’s merit cannot be questioned.

Your (Ralph’s) particular question(s) were specific to the QSM and it’s requirements as to fuel filtration.........Lot’s of experience w/ this engine and because of the design of the fuel system, filtering to 2 mic BEFORE the fuel gets to the engine may become a maintenance nightmare unless you have extremely large capacity in both un-restricted flow and element size, but still has NO PRACTICAL sense to it. Using only a Racor 1000 w/ a 2 mic element may be fine for a few hours of running ( a few to me is at least 50) , but most likely will lead to fuel restriction problems quickly.. Running a pair of these (switchable parallel), will certainly extend the time between element changes, but seems to be another impractical solution...............The last chance filter on the QSM ( a Fleetguard FS 1009 or FS 1000), is a very modern filter w/ a patented media design and is more than capable of handling fuel from a quality water separator before it that has a 7-10 mic element. Again, if you want more practical assurance of delivering clean fuel to your engine (which is a GOOD thing) , filter before your Racor, or add another in series, but filter your fuel in micron stages (60 / 30 / 20 / 15 /10 / 5 / 2 mics ) as this is how practical filtering is done in all industries or applications. And, as with the addition of any more filtration, your choice of plumbing, and capacity and pressure drop across the total system when clean, needs to be accounted for. Even my own “basic” sizes for fuel suctions hoses for applications that only needed ½” in the past, are now being re-evaluated as many may now need 5/8” id hose because of stricter fuel filter requirements needed by newer engines. (that also comes later)...

Properly set-up, it is very easy to install a practical 3 or 4 stage fuel filter system that has a pressure drop across the entire set of filters of less than 3” HG at a flow of 75GPH, and one that gives extended service intervals.. But do this in reverse order with smaller sized filters in front, you’ll now you will have a system that will “clog” well before it should and will be much more expensive and time consuming to maintain or diagnose.. A vacuum gage installed just after the last suction side filter will tell you when to change filters, but will have less “meaning” unless the filtering is done in correct order, from large to small. And, if your vessel use really dictates even more filtering capacity, then double up by paralleling two identical systems or by paralleling the primary “primaries” only..

What I’m trying to get across is PRACTICAL fuel filtration that has been proven to be effective long before I came along, but has been reinforced over the years from my own experience. My main customers are fuel burners of well over 5,000 gallons per year per engine, with some approaching 40,000+ gallons per year, so this is where I come from, NOT something “I read”..............

Earlier, I mentioned “common rail” fuel systems , so I’d like to point out some issues that will now become important to understand.. First off, this fuel delivery design is now being used in many production hi-performance diesels for both on and off highway use.. The design and idea has been around for decades, but it’s use and current development has taken a major leap in the last year or so.. With COMMON RAIL fuel pressures going well above 20,000 PSI from the pump, to the “common rail”, and all the way to the injector itself, a small amount of contamination, or especially water, that makes it to the pump and/or the injector will take on a whole new meaning.. In the past, many injection pumps have survived a teaspoon of water over an hour or so of operation, and still continue to march (although they may not be 100%). An injector may or may not have survived this water, but typically, only a tip would go with no or minimum of damage to the engine and/or your pocket book.............Let that teaspoon of water (or even 1/10 of a teaspoon) or the smallest amount of contamination get to the new common rail pumps, and it will most likely be an instantaneous major mechanical component failure ( your $2000+ fuel pump), along with a good chance of having an injector stick open that instantly starts dumping vast volumes of fuel to the cylinder or cylinders.. This leads to everything from a major fuel / engine overload , scuffing cylinders, cracked/melted pistons, etc, all happening in about 3 seconds, that’s right, 3 seconds.. You could think of it as a serious engine run-away.............................................. ............. Talk about why fuel filtration needs to be re-evaluated with this new technology. And , that’s why re-educational is needed and why you’ll will find that all companies that use common rail are requiring new and very strict filtration criteria.

Cummins has addressed this by requiring a WIF sensor “WATER IN FUEL” (two supplied per engine), that MUST be installed in the primary fuel filter (s) of the vessel for each engine. Besides that, they require a 10 MIC (minimum) primary filtration (meaning that you must use a 10 mic filter BEFORE the engine and this filter MUST meet certain minimum requirements:

(minimum) Primary Fuel Water Separator Specifications:

10 micron filter rating.
Separator must have a 36 gram minimum capacity per SAE J1905.
98.7% efficiency using ISO A2 test dust per SAE J1985 test methods.
Filter must remove 95% (or more) coarse water droplets over the life of the filter, per SAE1488.

And, the new requirement for “last chance” fuel filtration on the engine is now 2 mic and this filter must also meet very strict requirements. Currently, Cummins is using a Fleetguard FF 5488 on all of the QSB’s, QSC’s and QSL’s as the on-engine final fuel filter. A quick check w/ Fleetguard yielded this info: 2 mic Stratapore high performance media w/ 19 grams of dirt holding capacity, .95” Hg pressure drop/100 GPM clean w/ a 203PSI burst pressure rating... In case you don’t know much about filters, that’s a “filter” that doesn’t let much past it, but then again needs to be supplied w/ a specific quality of pre-filtered fuel. In fact, and this point must be understood, these systems are so particular as to fuel quality, you must NEVER pre-fill these filters before installation.. You must let the pre-filtered fuel from your off-engine fuel system do that for you thru the priming mechanism built in the engine....................

So, where does all this leave us at this point?? Will this scare away many from this technology because these new engines are so particular as to fuel quality? It may, in some cases, because many out there are perfectly happy with their current era of engines, and “new” stuff is just too scary or expensive to deal with... But for anyone buying new engines, they need to be aware of these upgraded requirements and have a thorough understanding of what needs to be accomplished with fuel filtration.. And just like before, these requirements are a minimum to get by (typical boat builders usually supply the “minimum” in order to just meet requirements) ..The basics are easily met and can easily be engineered into a new boat or repower, but to add that extra level of security, extra measures need to be taken so there is plenty of room for error ( like getting a lousy tank of fuel, or having water drip thru a deck fill or down a fuel tank vent) and still not have any problems.........

For a QSM owner ( Ralph) or someone who wants to use a simple and very effective multi-state fuel system or a “primary fuel system” before feeding fuel to his engine last chance fuel filter, using Fleetguard FF5013 in combination with a FS 1000 is a proven and very effective system. For a simple upgrade to this, using the new FS 19596 with a built-in WIF sensor ( this is a new filter that fits/replaces where the FS1000 does, but has more dirt holding capacity, (it’s 8 mic hi-performance unit at 90GPH), he can’t go wrong, and this combo is miles ahead in both capacity, quality and safety of delivering clean fuel, and ease of use compared to a Racor 1000..One could also replace his FS 1009 on the QSM w/ a FS 19596 along with using the WIF sensor , thereby adding a measurable amount of simple, yet very effective extra filtration to his QSM..........

So yes, I’m quite passionate on this subject, but I have good reason to be.. Although I love selling injection pumps and injectors ( it helps pay for my fish pond hobby), I just can’t bring myself to accept the typical single unit primary fuel filter defense that most vessels owners rely on...As for those who’s initial response is either “adds too much restriction” or “never had an issue”, well my response is: “you have no clue as to how to measure or understand restriction” , or “great”, I’m glad it’s always worked for you. For those of you who are interested in looking into upgrading your current fuel system, drop me a note w/ details about your particular application, and I’ll be glad to send you a recommendation specific to your needs............................................. .....................Tony

[termite]

how does everyone feel about the SEPARS.