Anonymous
01-21-2003, 11:46 PM
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 1. Bottom Paint Recommendations
O.K. ... Got a slip lined up, now I need to get the bottom of the "Prior Engagement" painted. This is what my tentative plan is to have done:
1. Have bottom sanded.
2. Apply epoxy barrier coat to everything including metal surfaces to allow application of regular paint (Interlux). I understand that they have a lifetime warranty against blisters with their 10 mil epoxy system, however, it ain't cheap!
3. Two coats of Interlux Micron CSC Extra (in black).
Anybody have any recommendations on where to have done? I got a few park figures and one was quite a $hocked. I plan on slipping the boat 10 out of 12 months and I think the barrier coat is a must.
Thanks in advance for your input. Any estimated cost would be appreciated too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 08:39 a.m. on 03-02-2001
shamster
normal member in standard member. 2. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prior Engagement (03-02-2001 08:39 a.m.):
O.K. ... Got a slip lined up, now I need to get the bottom of the "Prior Engagement" painted. This is what my tentative plan is to have done:
1. Have bottom sanded.
2. Apply epoxy barrier coat to everything including metal surfaces to allow application of regular paint (Interlux). I understand that they have a lifetime warranty against blisters with their 10 mil epoxy system, however, it ain't cheap!
3. Two coats of Interlux Micron CSC Extra (in black).
Anybody have any recommendations on where to have done? I got a few park figures and one was quite a $hocked. I plan on slipping the boat 10 out of 12 months and I think the barrier coat is a must.
Thanks in advance for your input. Any estimated cost would be appreciated too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is going to sound crazy even coming from Calif.! Take a pound of the hottest Cayenne pepper you can find (I found some at a health food store,go figure) add a bottle of "mildewcide" available from your local paint store and mix it into your bottom paint! I got this from an old timer that kept his boat in Cabo and swore nothing clings to the bottom of his boat, I tried it on my old Bertram and he was right! The theory is that when the bottom paint wears down like it's supposed to it exposes the pepper and nothing can stand living on the pepper! I'm sure the guys on the board will get a good laugh, but it works. Steve
Date: 11:40 a.m. on 03-02-2001
RunningBare
normal member in standard member. 3. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Shamster, you're right on target. Mixing mildew retardant and cayenne pepper is a little known secret here on the Gulf Coast. It will prolong the life of the bottom paint job and keep organisms at bay. Here's another use for cayenne pepper....add a little to tips of your socks before strapping on the snow ski boots, keep your feet warm all day.
Date: 03:58 p.m. on 03-02-2001
Leprechaun
premium member in standard member. 4. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
O.K., enough with the red pepper - everybody knows the best use for red pepper is on a dish of red clam sauce over linguini. Is my Sicilian upbringing showing? I hope so.
Anyway - Mike/P.E. - why are you sanding all the paint off your rig and going thru this big expense? Is the current paint flaking off in big chips? If so then the job needs to get done, if not why not just go over the current paint with the Interlux ablative? And by the way - no need to spend big bukeroos any more on Micron CSC - try the Bottomkote ACP for about a 40% savings - after three seasons of use I find EXACTLY the same service/performance with the ACP as I formerly had with Micron.
Also why go thru this big sealing thing? Does your particular hull exhibit any evidence of water intrusion - i.e.: blistering or soft spots? This problem seems most common on early/mid '80s 20-footers not so common on the other Shamrocks. I keep my 26 in 10 months EVERY year and never a blister. And this past winter I left her in entirely - and she won't come out till some time in April for a Powerwash/repaint and plop, right back in till January, at least.
That Interprotect is good for sandblasted boats, which have had some erosion of the gelcoat, I'm not convinced its all that important on an undamaged hull. Plus it adds at least 50lbs to the hull. Just my $.02 worth. Rgds, Leprechaun
Date: 05:19 p.m. on 03-02-2001
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 5. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Lep,
She is naked, no bottom paint or exisitng bottom problems ('00 - 246 WAC). After asking around, I am getting the feeling the expensive barrier coat is not needed for my application.
Any body have an idea of what I should be paying?
Thanks for the input so far.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 00:10 a.m. on 03-03-2001
Leprechaun
premium member in standard member. 6. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Mike - If she's naked this is what you need to know/do. First - find out from your dealer or Shamrock themselves if the hull laminate schedule's first outer layer is "Vinylester". If this is the case, and its a good case, then you just LIGHTLY sand with 100 grit paper on a vibrating palm sander, two coats of single-part primer and paint with the bottom paint. Vinylester resin was formulated to prevent osmotic pentetration of the inner glass lay-up thus it acts as a barrier coat without any added help. Don't let any boat-yard/dealer BS you, NO added barrier coat is required with vinylester. It wouldn't hurt anything, but its heavy and not needed. And expensive to buy and labor intensive to apply.
Now if there is not a barrier layer of vinylester resin in the Laminate schedule, shame on KCS, just about EVERY major builder is now using it. But if its not there then its a crap-shoot. Like I said earlier, my '87 rig is the "Regular" otophtalic resin (I think that's how its spelled) meaning its the old-style polyester throughout the lay-up schedule, and I never got any blisters. And if I were to buy a new boat (perish the thought) I would not barrier coat it even if it were not vinylester. But if you want peace of mind, it can't really hurt anything.
As far as what this would cost, not a clue. On my dock we do all our own work. My dock buddy, Screamineagle DID do the Interprotect thing last Summer, so he would be the one to ask. It wasn't cheap to buy as a material purchase, and it was a real PITA project to apply, because you have a strict window to lay down the various coats. Too soon or too late with the followup coats and the job is ineffective.
The Bottomkote ACP is regularly around $89/gal - I get it for around $75 in late March when West Marine runs its Spring Fling Thing.
I would just scuff her up, prime with 2 quarts of Pettit's sliver primer and then a nice thick coat of Bottomkote ACP - doubling up on the keel and waterline and you should be good to go. Don't forget to paint the prop and shaft. A gallon will probably be enough to repaint next season on a 24 footer. IMHO. Rgds, Leprechaun
Date: 07:48 a.m. on 03-03-2001
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 7. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Lep,
Thanks for all the great info. I have painted a many a bottom in my days, however, never the first time. I am going to have the professionals do it the first time and then its just a matter of masking off the water line and a quick scrub.
I believe the sticker on the transom says something about vinylester. I'll double check in a couple of weeks when I go get her out of storage. If so, then no need for the expen$ive barrier coat. You sound like an echo from what the guy at the boat yard told me about applying that epoxy barrier coat. Strict windows of application is one reason why it is
so pricey.
Your statement about the shaft and prop are just the opposite of what a charter boat captain friend of mine told me. He said not to paint the shaft and prop as they spin so fast nothing is going to cling to them anyway (including the paint). I guess when you use the boat everyday that is true, however, I have shore duty and only get out on the weekends and holidays.
Thanks again for all the great input.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 10:40 p.m. on 03-03-2001
Leprechaun
premium member in standard member. 8. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Mike - Don't listen to that advise about not painting the running gear. Your charter captain is dead wrong regarding boats that sit for any appreciable time as you apparently have surmised. Just a few barnacles on the prop or shaft will significantly alter the careful balance of the running gear, causing vibration and excessive wear of the cutlass bearing. And a pronounced loss of hull speed. It sneaks up on you round about August you notice a few knots off your cruise and start to wonder what's up. Barnacles are what's up. And a haulout will have to happen. Make sure the yard uses the correct paint on the face of your fishfinder transducer if its not a shoot-thru type. Its made by MDR and is available in any decent Marine Supply store. And make sure they DO NOT paint the zincs (Which should be installed prior to bottompaint to ensure a good ground) and if you have a Dynaplate ground plate that must be left Nekkid too. This will be covered with Barnacles by mid-summer, but it must not be painted none-the-less. Good Luck, Rgds, Leprechaun
Date: 11:25 p.m. on 03-03-2001
Chief
9. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Mike, if you go to Interlux's web site, under Sales Outlets, you can find nearby Yacht or Boatyard centers specially trained to apply the various Interlux products. Don
Date: 08:48 a.m. on 03-04-2001
Cap'n Ron
normal member in standard member. 10. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Mike/PE - One more comment. It has been a long time since I painted a new bottom but we used to avoid breaking the gel coat. On bare new boats we used a sand coat 1st aapiled directly to the gel coat, then covered with bottom paint. You may want to pursue this with the interlux folks.
I hate to chance breaking that gel barrier even with light sanding.
New products and techniques since my last brand new boat.
Date: 11:30 p.m. on 03-04-2001
Capt_Dog
premium member in standard member. 11. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
PE,
Lep is spot on with the running gear comment and the treatment. I hauled my 220 WA in November and the bottom had some slime across the bottom; however, on the tabs, prop and rudder there were barnacles. Growth on running gear is the worst. One barnacle on a prop will throw it out of balance (sic. a tire weight for balance). Lep also makes a good point I will reinforce about grounding plates. If you do not treat metal running gear it will stimulate electrolsis througout the boat, even with zinc. Interlux and many other company's web site speak directly to how this should be done. In my case, my metal running gear was not properly primed prior to paint.
Another point that has not been pointed out. If you keep your boat out of the water, then you need to be aware of the type of paint you use. Many bottom paints dictate that the boat be not out of the water for more than 24 hours at one time or the anit-slime et. al. will begin to degrade. This is very important. I see many boats in racks with anti-fouling paint and it is worthless after the first 24 hours. If you keep your boat is the water, then the only concern is when you haul for routine maintainence. Good Luck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Lee
Date: 09:20 a.m. on 03-05-2001
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 12. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Man, this board is great! Thanks to all for your assistance so far! Keep the info coming. I am going to check out the Interlux Site this evening.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 02:52 p.m. on 03-05-2001
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 13. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Just in case anyone is wondering, it appears that the new Shamrocks (at least my 2000 246 WAC does) indeed have the vinyl ester gel coat system. Checked today when I was working on boat. There is a sticker on the transom stating so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 09:13 p.m. on 03-11-2001
premium member in standard member. 1. Bottom Paint Recommendations
O.K. ... Got a slip lined up, now I need to get the bottom of the "Prior Engagement" painted. This is what my tentative plan is to have done:
1. Have bottom sanded.
2. Apply epoxy barrier coat to everything including metal surfaces to allow application of regular paint (Interlux). I understand that they have a lifetime warranty against blisters with their 10 mil epoxy system, however, it ain't cheap!
3. Two coats of Interlux Micron CSC Extra (in black).
Anybody have any recommendations on where to have done? I got a few park figures and one was quite a $hocked. I plan on slipping the boat 10 out of 12 months and I think the barrier coat is a must.
Thanks in advance for your input. Any estimated cost would be appreciated too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 08:39 a.m. on 03-02-2001
shamster
normal member in standard member. 2. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prior Engagement (03-02-2001 08:39 a.m.):
O.K. ... Got a slip lined up, now I need to get the bottom of the "Prior Engagement" painted. This is what my tentative plan is to have done:
1. Have bottom sanded.
2. Apply epoxy barrier coat to everything including metal surfaces to allow application of regular paint (Interlux). I understand that they have a lifetime warranty against blisters with their 10 mil epoxy system, however, it ain't cheap!
3. Two coats of Interlux Micron CSC Extra (in black).
Anybody have any recommendations on where to have done? I got a few park figures and one was quite a $hocked. I plan on slipping the boat 10 out of 12 months and I think the barrier coat is a must.
Thanks in advance for your input. Any estimated cost would be appreciated too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is going to sound crazy even coming from Calif.! Take a pound of the hottest Cayenne pepper you can find (I found some at a health food store,go figure) add a bottle of "mildewcide" available from your local paint store and mix it into your bottom paint! I got this from an old timer that kept his boat in Cabo and swore nothing clings to the bottom of his boat, I tried it on my old Bertram and he was right! The theory is that when the bottom paint wears down like it's supposed to it exposes the pepper and nothing can stand living on the pepper! I'm sure the guys on the board will get a good laugh, but it works. Steve
Date: 11:40 a.m. on 03-02-2001
RunningBare
normal member in standard member. 3. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Shamster, you're right on target. Mixing mildew retardant and cayenne pepper is a little known secret here on the Gulf Coast. It will prolong the life of the bottom paint job and keep organisms at bay. Here's another use for cayenne pepper....add a little to tips of your socks before strapping on the snow ski boots, keep your feet warm all day.
Date: 03:58 p.m. on 03-02-2001
Leprechaun
premium member in standard member. 4. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
O.K., enough with the red pepper - everybody knows the best use for red pepper is on a dish of red clam sauce over linguini. Is my Sicilian upbringing showing? I hope so.
Anyway - Mike/P.E. - why are you sanding all the paint off your rig and going thru this big expense? Is the current paint flaking off in big chips? If so then the job needs to get done, if not why not just go over the current paint with the Interlux ablative? And by the way - no need to spend big bukeroos any more on Micron CSC - try the Bottomkote ACP for about a 40% savings - after three seasons of use I find EXACTLY the same service/performance with the ACP as I formerly had with Micron.
Also why go thru this big sealing thing? Does your particular hull exhibit any evidence of water intrusion - i.e.: blistering or soft spots? This problem seems most common on early/mid '80s 20-footers not so common on the other Shamrocks. I keep my 26 in 10 months EVERY year and never a blister. And this past winter I left her in entirely - and she won't come out till some time in April for a Powerwash/repaint and plop, right back in till January, at least.
That Interprotect is good for sandblasted boats, which have had some erosion of the gelcoat, I'm not convinced its all that important on an undamaged hull. Plus it adds at least 50lbs to the hull. Just my $.02 worth. Rgds, Leprechaun
Date: 05:19 p.m. on 03-02-2001
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 5. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Lep,
She is naked, no bottom paint or exisitng bottom problems ('00 - 246 WAC). After asking around, I am getting the feeling the expensive barrier coat is not needed for my application.
Any body have an idea of what I should be paying?
Thanks for the input so far.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 00:10 a.m. on 03-03-2001
Leprechaun
premium member in standard member. 6. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Mike - If she's naked this is what you need to know/do. First - find out from your dealer or Shamrock themselves if the hull laminate schedule's first outer layer is "Vinylester". If this is the case, and its a good case, then you just LIGHTLY sand with 100 grit paper on a vibrating palm sander, two coats of single-part primer and paint with the bottom paint. Vinylester resin was formulated to prevent osmotic pentetration of the inner glass lay-up thus it acts as a barrier coat without any added help. Don't let any boat-yard/dealer BS you, NO added barrier coat is required with vinylester. It wouldn't hurt anything, but its heavy and not needed. And expensive to buy and labor intensive to apply.
Now if there is not a barrier layer of vinylester resin in the Laminate schedule, shame on KCS, just about EVERY major builder is now using it. But if its not there then its a crap-shoot. Like I said earlier, my '87 rig is the "Regular" otophtalic resin (I think that's how its spelled) meaning its the old-style polyester throughout the lay-up schedule, and I never got any blisters. And if I were to buy a new boat (perish the thought) I would not barrier coat it even if it were not vinylester. But if you want peace of mind, it can't really hurt anything.
As far as what this would cost, not a clue. On my dock we do all our own work. My dock buddy, Screamineagle DID do the Interprotect thing last Summer, so he would be the one to ask. It wasn't cheap to buy as a material purchase, and it was a real PITA project to apply, because you have a strict window to lay down the various coats. Too soon or too late with the followup coats and the job is ineffective.
The Bottomkote ACP is regularly around $89/gal - I get it for around $75 in late March when West Marine runs its Spring Fling Thing.
I would just scuff her up, prime with 2 quarts of Pettit's sliver primer and then a nice thick coat of Bottomkote ACP - doubling up on the keel and waterline and you should be good to go. Don't forget to paint the prop and shaft. A gallon will probably be enough to repaint next season on a 24 footer. IMHO. Rgds, Leprechaun
Date: 07:48 a.m. on 03-03-2001
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 7. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Lep,
Thanks for all the great info. I have painted a many a bottom in my days, however, never the first time. I am going to have the professionals do it the first time and then its just a matter of masking off the water line and a quick scrub.
I believe the sticker on the transom says something about vinylester. I'll double check in a couple of weeks when I go get her out of storage. If so, then no need for the expen$ive barrier coat. You sound like an echo from what the guy at the boat yard told me about applying that epoxy barrier coat. Strict windows of application is one reason why it is
so pricey.
Your statement about the shaft and prop are just the opposite of what a charter boat captain friend of mine told me. He said not to paint the shaft and prop as they spin so fast nothing is going to cling to them anyway (including the paint). I guess when you use the boat everyday that is true, however, I have shore duty and only get out on the weekends and holidays.
Thanks again for all the great input.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 10:40 p.m. on 03-03-2001
Leprechaun
premium member in standard member. 8. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Mike - Don't listen to that advise about not painting the running gear. Your charter captain is dead wrong regarding boats that sit for any appreciable time as you apparently have surmised. Just a few barnacles on the prop or shaft will significantly alter the careful balance of the running gear, causing vibration and excessive wear of the cutlass bearing. And a pronounced loss of hull speed. It sneaks up on you round about August you notice a few knots off your cruise and start to wonder what's up. Barnacles are what's up. And a haulout will have to happen. Make sure the yard uses the correct paint on the face of your fishfinder transducer if its not a shoot-thru type. Its made by MDR and is available in any decent Marine Supply store. And make sure they DO NOT paint the zincs (Which should be installed prior to bottompaint to ensure a good ground) and if you have a Dynaplate ground plate that must be left Nekkid too. This will be covered with Barnacles by mid-summer, but it must not be painted none-the-less. Good Luck, Rgds, Leprechaun
Date: 11:25 p.m. on 03-03-2001
Chief
9. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Mike, if you go to Interlux's web site, under Sales Outlets, you can find nearby Yacht or Boatyard centers specially trained to apply the various Interlux products. Don
Date: 08:48 a.m. on 03-04-2001
Cap'n Ron
normal member in standard member. 10. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Mike/PE - One more comment. It has been a long time since I painted a new bottom but we used to avoid breaking the gel coat. On bare new boats we used a sand coat 1st aapiled directly to the gel coat, then covered with bottom paint. You may want to pursue this with the interlux folks.
I hate to chance breaking that gel barrier even with light sanding.
New products and techniques since my last brand new boat.
Date: 11:30 p.m. on 03-04-2001
Capt_Dog
premium member in standard member. 11. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
PE,
Lep is spot on with the running gear comment and the treatment. I hauled my 220 WA in November and the bottom had some slime across the bottom; however, on the tabs, prop and rudder there were barnacles. Growth on running gear is the worst. One barnacle on a prop will throw it out of balance (sic. a tire weight for balance). Lep also makes a good point I will reinforce about grounding plates. If you do not treat metal running gear it will stimulate electrolsis througout the boat, even with zinc. Interlux and many other company's web site speak directly to how this should be done. In my case, my metal running gear was not properly primed prior to paint.
Another point that has not been pointed out. If you keep your boat out of the water, then you need to be aware of the type of paint you use. Many bottom paints dictate that the boat be not out of the water for more than 24 hours at one time or the anit-slime et. al. will begin to degrade. This is very important. I see many boats in racks with anti-fouling paint and it is worthless after the first 24 hours. If you keep your boat is the water, then the only concern is when you haul for routine maintainence. Good Luck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Lee
Date: 09:20 a.m. on 03-05-2001
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 12. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Man, this board is great! Thanks to all for your assistance so far! Keep the info coming. I am going to check out the Interlux Site this evening.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 02:52 p.m. on 03-05-2001
Prior Engagement
premium member in standard member. 13. Re:Bottom Paint Recommendations
Just in case anyone is wondering, it appears that the new Shamrocks (at least my 2000 246 WAC does) indeed have the vinyl ester gel coat system. Checked today when I was working on boat. There is a sticker on the transom stating so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair seas and tight lines,
Mike N.
Date: 09:13 p.m. on 03-11-2001