I want a Shamrock!!???!!

[horseplay]

I am getting back into boating and want a used 20-22 ft Shamrock. I have never ridden on one but like the features (mainly the inboard).

I have had a BW 18 outrage w/115 merc, and BW 23wa w/twin 150 yamaha. Does anybody know how they would compair with the shamrocks (wet/dry/fuel/comfort/etc).

what about keel vs spII?

Is there anything special I should look out for?

I am on the west coast and wouldn't mind buying one from the east as long as the shipping cost isn't too bad. what is the cost?


Thanks,


Ray

[Damon]

Where-a-abouts are you on the West coast? Take a ride on a Shammy so you can see for yourself how they ride. If you are near San Diego, you're welcome to take a ride on mine.

[Lolo Kane]

If your in Orange County I'll take you for a cruise on my 20' Center Console. You might have to wait a while before Damon's boat is ready, his fuel tank project could take months!

Just kidding Damon.

Lolo

[horseplay]

Thank you, Lolo Kane I am in los alamitos,ca. Tell me about your boat. I have been to SCI on my 18BW and came back to San Pedro soaked and sore. got about 2mpg average.

The 23wa was a good/dry ride, of course it had the cabin that blocked the spray, and would max at just under 50mph (something that shouldn't be done) but would get no more than 1.4mpg. And could not plane with one motor.

Thank you Damon for the offer.

I would like to get more info from both of you.

Thanks,

Ray

[Damon]

Start here:

http://www.fishtheclassic.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=949

[Prior Engagement]

HP - Your situation sounds a lot like mine. Moved up from a '79 20' Outrage with a 150 HP Yammie to my 2000 246 WAC. The things I liked best was the hard top and curtains and the nice cabin for overnighting. The washdown and self-bailing features as well as the swimplatform and clean transom are some of the nice amenities. The cockpit layout is all fishing. Me and my fishing buddies can actually word on the 350 Chevy in the belly of my rig too. It is not a speed demon, but I love her none the less. Mileage is 2 to 2.25 nmpg depending on load, trim, and weather conditions.

Do you have a specific question?

[Lolo Kane]

My boat is a 1989 "Open Fish" model. It has the keel. It cruises at about 22-24 knots and will do 30 at wot. It is a wet ride when there is any head or quartering wind, I might add spray rails to help with that. I get about 2.5 to 3.0 mpg depending on load and the sea conditions.
My motor is tired and needs a rebuild so the mileage will improve hopefully. I had to learn how to handle the boat in tight quarters but now I can turn it on a dime. It surprised me a few times in a following sea with a tendency to roll. That was my fault, I had to learn how to turn out of the induced roll and not into it. These boats roll to the outside of any turn because of the keel. This is the opposite of every outboard or outdrive that I have ever driven.

Now having said all that, I love this boat! It is the best riding 20' boat I have ever been on, and it is a very stable fishing platform. The good ol' American V8 is simple, and I can do all the maintenance/repairs myself (with the help of this board!). If it does break down at sea I stand a far better chance at fixing it my self than I would with any outboard. I am very comfortable in this boat offshore. With 50 gallons of fuel SC island is on the edge of my range. I could do it easily with some extra fuel on deck or a stop by Avalon to top off on the way back.

Here's a great quote from Damon, "The Parkers and the Gradys pass me by in the morning on the way out, but they line up behind me on the way in." That say's it all, if it's glassy conditions everyone else is faster, but if it's rough out these boats ride better and go the same speed with out slapping!

Sorry if I didn't get that quote exactly right Damon, it was a great one.

My boat is in the middle of a complete electronics upgrade that will be done by next weekend. If you want to come down sometime after that I could show you the boat and take you for a ride. Let me know.

Lolo


Thank you, Lolo Kane I am in los alamitos,ca. Tell me about your boat. I have been to SCI on my 18BW and came back to San Pedro soaked and sore. got about 2mpg average.

The 23wa was a good/dry ride, of course it had the cabin that blocked the spray, and would max at just under 50mph (something that shouldn't be done) but would get no more than 1.4mpg. And could not plane with one motor.

Thank you Damon for the offer.

I would like to get more info from both of you.

Thanks,

Ray

[horseplay]

Prior Engagement,

Do you have the SPII hull? If so, does it have the same tendency to roll with following sea as the keel?





HP - Your situation sounds a lot like mine. Moved up from a '79 20' Outrage with a 150 HP Yammie to my 2000 246 WAC. The things I liked best was the hard top and curtains and the nice cabin for overnighting. The washdown and self-bailing features as well as the swimplatform and clean transom are some of the nice amenities. The cockpit layout is all fishing. Me and my fishing buddies can actually word on the 350 Chevy in the belly of my rig too. It is not a speed demon, but I love her none the less. Mileage is 2 to 2.25 nmpg depending on load, trim, and weather conditions.

Do you have a specific question?

[El Bombero]

Horse Play, if you are in the San Diego area I would be glad to give you a test ride on my 22' WAC. Regarding your question about the SPII design, I think Shamrock is dropping the keel design for two reasons. First is production cost, but I think the over riding factor is they are trying to compete more with the faster boats. I have a friend with a SPII and the hull is dramatically differnt from mine. Power plants are similar and he is quite a bit faster than me. But once we leave the harbor his ride is nothing like mine. When I go fishing I plan on cruising at 2900 rpm, about 20 mph, for fuel economy. Lots of boats pass me going out, but coming home I'm still cruising at 20 mph, in a dry comfortable boat. Most of the go fast boats are getting beat up and wet. If you want to run fast then Shamrock isn't the boat you want.

[horseplay]

El Bombero,

Thank you for the info and the invite.

So is the SPII some where between a keel and an outdrive/board? Better but not quite a keel? I ask because what may be available in the size i'm looking at could be the SPII.

I'm sure all those boats that pass you on the way out also have to come come in before you (due to fuel/conditions).

Thanks again,


Ray





Horse Play, if you are in the San Diego area I would be glad to give you a test ride on my 22' WAC. Regarding your question about the SPII design, I think Shamrock is dropping the keel design for two reasons. First is production cost, but I think the over riding factor is they are trying to compete more with the faster boats. I have a friend with a SPII and the hull is dramatically differnt from mine. Power plants are similar and he is quite a bit faster than me. But once we leave the harbor his ride is nothing like mine. When I go fishing I plan on cruising at 2900 rpm, about 20 mph, for fuel economy. Lots of boats pass me going out, but coming home I'm still cruising at 20 mph, in a dry comfortable boat. Most of the go fast boats are getting beat up and wet. If you want to run fast then Shamrock isn't the boat you want.

[horseplay]

Lolo Kane,

Thank you for the great info and the invite. If I get a few more invite I may not need a boat! :D

Thanks,


Ray




My boat is a 1989 "Open Fish" model. It has the keel. It cruises at about 22-24 knots and will do 30 at wot. It is a wet ride when there is any head or quartering wind, I might add spray rails to help with that. I get about 2.5 to 3.0 mpg depending on load and the sea conditions.
My motor is tired and needs a rebuild so the mileage will improve hopefully. I had to learn how to handle the boat in tight quarters but now I can turn it on a dime. It surprised me a few times in a following sea with a tendency to roll. That was my fault, I had to learn how to turn out of the induced roll and not into it. These boats roll to the outside of any turn because of the keel. This is the opposite of every outboard or outdrive that I have ever driven.

Now having said all that, I love this boat! It is the best riding 20' boat I have ever been on, and it is a very stable fishing platform. The good ol' American V8 is simple, and I can do all the maintenance/repairs myself (with the help of this board!). If it does break down at sea I stand a far better chance at fixing it my self than I would with any outboard. I am very comfortable in this boat offshore. With 50 gallons of fuel SC island is on the edge of my range. I could do it easily with some extra fuel on deck or a stop by Avalon to top off on the way back.

Here's a great quote from Damon, "The Parkers and the Gradys pass me by in the morning on the way out, but they line up behind me on the way in." That say's it all, if it's glassy conditions everyone else is faster, but if it's rough out these boats ride better and go the same speed with out slapping!

Sorry if I didn't get that quote exactly right Damon, it was a great one.

My boat is in the middle of a complete electronics upgrade that will be done by next weekend. If you want to come down sometime after that I could show you the boat and take you for a ride. Let me know.

Lolo


Thank you, Lolo Kane I am in los alamitos,ca. Tell me about your boat. I have been to SCI on my 18BW and came back to San Pedro soaked and sore. got about 2mpg average.

The 23wa was a good/dry ride, of course it had the cabin that blocked the spray, and would max at just under 50mph (something that shouldn't be done) but would get no more than 1.4mpg. And could not plane with one motor.

Thank you Damon for the offer.

I would like to get more info from both of you.

Thanks,

Ray

[Prior Engagement]

I have the SPII "Pocket Drive" Hull. Go to the Shammy site for more info. It is similar to the old Penn Yann tunnel drive, but only similar. More like the larger IB boats you see with prop pockets. The new Luhrs 30 Express has them on it and was reviewed in the latest issue of Boating.


http://www.shamrockboats.com/spII.html

[Luckydog]

Lolo Kane,
I have a 20' WAC, the slightly shorter version of what El Bombero has (his is 22'). I have posted before how much I love this boat. No,she's not fast, she's not "unsinkable" and no, she's not built better than all the rest. As a matter of fact, some of the workmanship I've discovered behind the panels, etc. leaves some to be desired. However, for what I like to do, it's the perfect boat for me and my family. It will haul a load like you wouldn't believe. The space is terrific. A friend was with me this past Sunday and when he came aboard, the first words out of his mouth were "I can't believe this is a 20' boat, it seems so much bigger"... as others have said, you can do much of the maintenance yourself... things you wouldn't think of with an outboard. And you will get looks from people. Everytime I go to the ramp, all eyes are upon us because it is a very distinctive vessel. Plus it doesn't have the "2 Stroke Stench" and the transom is nice and clean, the swim platform almost eliminates the need for a ladder.... I love the boat, not a speed demon but a trustworthy vessel that you will probably own for years and years. That is my plan.... unless I go for the 22 footer like El Bombero!!!

Lucky Dog

[horseplay]

Luckydog,

I like your honesty! We all have passions but to see short comings and admit to then takes a lot. So I wonder what are the driving reason for a shamrock for you? You could have a bigger boat with more space and haul more of a load.

Thanks,


Ray




Lolo Kane,
I have a 20' WAC, the slightly shorter version of what El Bombero has (his is 22'). I have posted before how much I love this boat. No,she's not fast, she's not "unsinkable" and no, she's not built better than all the rest. As a matter of fact, some of the workmanship I've discovered behind the panels, etc. leaves some to be desired. However, for what I like to do, it's the perfect boat for me and my family. It will haul a load like you wouldn't believe. The space is terrific. A friend was with me this past Sunday and when he came aboard, the first words out of his mouth were "I can't believe this is a 20' boat, it seems so much bigger"... as others have said, you can do much of the maintenance yourself... things you wouldn't think of with an outboard. And you will get looks from people. Everytime I go to the ramp, all eyes are upon us because it is a very distinctive vessel. Plus it doesn't have the "2 Stroke Stench" and the transom is nice and clean, the swim platform almost eliminates the need for a ladder.... I love the boat, not a speed demon but a trustworthy vessel that you will probably own for years and years. That is my plan.... unless I go for the 22 footer like El Bombero!!!

Lucky Dog

[Damon]

Stop "Horseplaying" aroung and get a Shamrock!! (Just kidding)

Honestly, the draw backs are lack of high speed, low level scuppers, fuel tanks, and wet rides. That's it! Other than the high speed issue, all of these draw backs are solve-able. The "tendency to roll with following sea as the keel" has never been an issue with me. Bottom line, these are great boats, but not perfect. If I was to do it all over again, Shamrock would be it, hands down!

[Luckydog]

Horseplay,
The driving reason for me to get a Shamrock was, I hate to admit, the intrigue of owning an inboard, along with the limitations I experienced with my outboard powered boats. I had never really thought of inboards until I passed a 24 footer in the idle zone of a channel one day; it was a large, center consoled open fisherman with an inboard. It piqued my curiosity so I started looking around. After looking into them, the thing that probably got my curiosity up the most was the transom and swimplatform off the stern.... the functionality of it was wonderful plus the cockpit and deck area is unmatched in any of the outboard rigs I always see. As I was still looking around for one, I picked up my father in laws "Chapmans" Boating book... most of the boat handling section in this old book was about single screw inboards and how tricky they can be... but can be mastered with practice and pre-planning of your docking manouevres, etc. That intrigued me even more as I always like going my own way, being different from the masses.... So I looked, and looked and looked until I found my 1998 20' WAC.... It was more than I had intended to spend but because it was a consignment deal where I could work a trade in and get financed all in one spot, it made it easy to get my deal done in an afternoon. Didn't have to wait to sell my boat.

My boat is rigged fairly well, with a permanent T-Top, Taco Outriggers, 6 rod holders in the gunnels, 5 in the back of the T-top, Electronics box, Downriggers, decent GPS and decent Depthfinder & radio. T-top also has very good lights in it it, 2 aft and 1 forward so I can light up the decks like daytime at night, if I need to. I also have a flourescent tube under the T-top that isn't quite so bright and therefore does not destroy night vision if you need to look for something while underway... it also does not draw much current for when you are riding anchor.

The learning began though after I took it to the Keys last summer and again this past fall. I practiced in our lake and did fine handling the boat and boy does she haul a load for a 20' boat... it was all I wanted it to be as for the utility of the boat... and because the draft is really not that much, I had no problem in the skinny water I need to go through in route to where I pla down there. The learning was more of a mechanical nature. The chap that owned it before me had done a couple of modifications on the engine that caused havoc on the long trips out in the Gulf Stream, nearly leaving me stranded at sea: they put a coil (I have the old style ignition setup) on it that did not have the built in resistor so the coil after many hours got hot and shut us down...took us a while to narrow down to that being it... a tap or two with a hammer and it fired up. We replaced the coil with another just like it, not knowing the resistor was the issue. We learned that about 3 months later when the coil failed again....
Advice? Before you buy, find a parts supplier that carries PCM Parts(or whatever inboard engine version your prospective boat has) so if and when you must replace parts, they have their interchange books so you don't buy the wrong replacement part. Also, when it comes to ignition type, research it before you buy and see what modifications they may have made.... now for the carbureutor........
According to the PCM Engine manual (oh yes, be sure you get that or order one if previous owner does not have) came stock with a Holley. The former owner also modified that... to a Quadrajet, which from all I have heard is a fine substitute that will possibly give much better service and need much less adjustment and tuning over time.... however, these engines generally do not have mechanical fuel pumps, rather electrical ones. The Holley takes fuel at a higher PSI than the Quadrajet, so at low speeds for long periods, my engine would load up and shutoff... usually at the most inopportune times!! I would look for modifications there too... if carb modified, check to see if the electric fuel pump matches PSI-wise with the carb.... modifications in their own right are fine if done right and thought through... If not, you will be on a search and repair mission for a while. I just finished my search & repair missions and think I finally have the 2 or 3 all done....... we took the boat out across our large lake (about 4 miles one way) last night to go to a waterfront restaraunt for dinner.... it is running fabulously well... We've tubed the kids, pleasure cruised, etc. so I've now run almost 2 tanks of fuel through her and couldn't be happier. I'm thrilled. I am now after a year making modifications to her so she's more of "my boat".... oh yes, one last bit you might want to consider: I had to have my heads taken off and redone because I dropped a valve due to it breaking. It was about a $1,800 job all said and done. I believe it was caused by the several occassions where family or friends who I let drive it put the gear shift into neutral while underway, confused as to which was the throttle and which was the gearshift lever (doing at least 3,000+RPM's).... on one occassion, my friend that was driving put it in neutral, panicked at the overrev and then threw it into reverse, thinking he was closing the throttle!!!! The driver must pay attention to the Morse dual shifter. I have decided now (at the risk of being deemed an A$$) that nobody drives the boat but me.... it was my hard earned cash that paid the tab for repair so I figure it's my right as skipper to make that call....

Sorry for the long post, but I hope you find some of this info of my experience to be helpful!! You might say from my experience above that I'm not "lucky" but nobody has gotten physically hurt, we've resolved the Former Owners half done modifications and we now have a very reliable vessel that I am proud to ownl!!

Luckydog

[horseplay]

I would like to think the older you get the better your decision making gets. I don't need to go F-A-S-T like when I was a kid. There aren't too many Shamrocks out west but I will look a couple today!!! There is one that may fit my needs, a 1999 219cc with SPII hull. I'll keep you all updated.

Great info/opinions!!!



Thanks,


Ray